Israel (6 Viewers)

[WhoDatPhan78]

It's not victim blaming. It's stating a fact that flying kites in a war zone is a bad idea, and for good reason. That doesn't absolve or excuse the IDF when they do something wrong, but use some common sense here. And that's a terrible comparison. Not like that at all.

Doing anything in a war zone is a bad idea. Unfortunately, the kids in Gaza don't have the option of doing things outside a warzone.

 

[DaveXA]

I hear your point. But I'm honestly asking.."What should these kids be doing at that border...." given all that has happened to them already?

It's not even like they're fighting back, even though they have every right to. They probably don't have the means....to say the very least.

Well, first, they should be in shelter for the most part, and they shouldn't fly kites in and near where they could become potential targets. It's not fair, but they should take steps to protect themselves, not make themselves targets.

The IDF shouldn't be targeting them, sure, but don't make yourself a target either.

And of course they don't have the means. Never said they did. I think the IDF has more than made their point and should withdraw from Gaza and allow the Palestinians to return, but that's a non-starter for Israel until the remaing hostages are released.

I hope a ceasefire happens sooner rather than later, and hope the reports of a potential agreement are legitimate. I want to see the end of this as much as anyone else.

 

[DaveXA]

Doing anything in a war zone is a bad idea. Unfortunately, the kids in Gaza don't have the option of doing things outside a warzone.

You think I don't know that?

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

You think I don't know that?

It has been six months. The kids should be able to fly a kite.

We flipped out over kids having to do remote learning for a year because we were afraid it could impact their mental health.

 

[DaveXA]

It has been six months. The kids should be able to fly a kite.

We flipped out over kids having to do remote learning for a year because we were afraid it could impact their mental health.

Again, you think I don't know that? Of course they should be able to. I never said otherwise. Should be able to and whether it's advisable in that situation is two different things.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Again, you think I don't know that? Of course they should be able to. I never said otherwise. Should be able to and whether it's advisable in that situation is two different things.

It isn't advisable to attack an area near where children are flying kites.

 

[DaveXA]

It isn't advisable to attack an area near where children are flying kites.

Really? I had no idea.

 

[Heathen Saint]

It's not victim blaming. It's stating a fact that flying kites in a war zone is a bad idea, and for good reason. That doesn't absolve or excuse the IDF when they do something wrong, but use some common sense here.

So...doing normal things that civilians do (and has done for at least a decade) "in a war zone"?

What are other 'bad ideas' in a war zone? Because it seems like simply existing is a pretty bad idea for Palestinians, based on the numbers.

 

[DaveXA]

So...doing normal things that civilians do (and has done for at least a decade) "in a war zone"?

What are other 'bad ideas' in a war zone? Because it seems like simply existing is a pretty bad idea for Palestinians, based on the numbers.

No, but carry on with mischaracterizing what I said. Par for the course.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Well, first, they should be in shelter for the most part,

Oh, okay. That's what they should be doing. Because it's the safe and 'common sense' approach.

U.N. slams Israel for deadly strike on Gaza shelter as war with Hamas leaves hospitals under siege - CBS News
Israeli tank attacks UN center sheltering Palestinians, killing 9
Khan Younis: UN says 12 killed at Gaza shelter as fighting rages
Israel bombs refugee camps in central Gaza - Politico

MSF strongly condemns Israeli attack on MSF shelter in Al-Mawasi which kills two and injures six
In the late evening on Feb. 20, an Israeli tank shelled an MSF shelter in Al-Mawasi, killing two family members of an MSF staff and injuring seven others. Israeli forces had been clearly informed of the precise location of the shelter underscoring that nowhere in Gaza is safe and that deconfliction mechanisms are unreliable.

UN Human Rights Office - OPT: Unlawful killings in Gaza City

On 19 December 2023, between 2000 and 2300 hours, IDF reportedly surrounded and raided Al Awda building, also known as the “Annan building”, in Al Remal neighborhood, Gaza City, where three related families were sheltering in addition to Annan family. According to witness accounts circulated by media sources and Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor, while in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot andMSF strongly condemns Israeli attack on MSF shelter in Al-Mawasi which kills two killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members. The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification. IDF has not released any information on the incident.

and they shouldn't fly kites in and near where they could become potential targets. It's not fair, but they should take steps to protect themselves, not make themselves targets.

They're already targets..I could show you pages of evidence. Videos, photos, audio. It's all there.

The IDF shouldn't be targeting them, sure, but don't make yourself a target either.

After everything that has happened...I don't blame them one bit.

Doesn't it make sense that nowhere is safe?

And of course they don't have the means. Never said they did. I think the IDF has more than made their point and should withdraw from Gaza and allow the Palestinians to return, but that's a non-starter for Israel until the remaing hostages are released.

It's not about the hostages anymore

That's not even what Israel is talking about. They're talking about force migrating all Palestinians in the south out of Gaza (that's ethnic cleansing) and occupying the land

I hope a ceasefire happens sooner rather than later, and hope the reports of a potential agreement are legitimate. I want to see the end of this as much as anyone else.

A ceasefire after Israel has slaughtered 30-40k civilians and razed their land, destroyed their crops, etc. is a slap in the face.

It's like watching a kid get picked on by bullies...watch him get the s*** beat out of him until he's more or less lifeless and then saying "ok, ok...that's too much, we have to talk about getting you to stop"

It's an empty gesture (one the US hasn't actually delivered on yet..and would they actually enforce it?) and that's saying the VERY least.

 

[DaveXA]

Oh, okay. That's what they should be doing. Because it's the safe and 'common sense' approach.

U.N. slams Israel for deadly strike on Gaza shelter as war with Hamas leaves hospitals under siege - CBS News
Israeli tank attacks UN center sheltering Palestinians, killing 9
Khan Younis: UN says 12 killed at Gaza shelter as fighting rages
Israel bombs refugee camps in central Gaza - Politico


UN Human Rights Office - OPT: Unlawful killings in Gaza City




They're already targets..I could show you pages of evidence. Videos, photos, audio. It's all there.



After everything that has happened...I don't blame them one bit.

Doesn't it make sense that nowhere is safe?



It's not about the hostages anymore

That's not even what Israel is talking about. They're talking about force migrating all Palestinians in the south out of Gaza (that's ethnic cleansing) and occupying the land



A ceasefire after Israel has slaughtered 30-40k civilians and razed their land, destroyed their crops, etc. is a slap in the face.

It's like watching a kid get picked on by bullies...watch him get the s*** beat out of him until he's more or less lifeless and then saying "ok, ok...that's too much, we have to talk about getting you to stop"

It's an empty gesture (one the US hasn't actually delivered on yet..and would they actually enforce it?) and that's saying the VERY least.

 

[Heathen Saint]

No, but carry on with mischaracterizing what I said. Par for the course.

Would you explain how I am purposefully 'mischaracterizing' what you said?

 

[DaveXA]

Would you explain how I am purposefully 'mischaracterizing' what you said?

You have put words in my mouth or said I imply things I haven't implied. Regardless, your last post is basically regurgitating what we've been talking about for the last couple of pages. We aren't going to see eye to eye. Let's move on.

And fwiw, the reason I've been a bit blunt the last several posts is it just feels like you and WDP78 are just insulting my intelligence, rather than having a discussion with my peers.

That may not be your intent, but that's how it comes across to me.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Regardless, your last post is basically regurgitating what we've been talking about for the last couple of pages. We aren't going to see eye to eye. Let's move on.

I don't think the intent was ever to mischaracterize. Nor do I wish to insult the intelligence of anyone on the board. I've re-read what I posted several times and don't think there was an intent to make you sound like you're saying something you aren't actually saying.

My last post wasn't just a 'regurgitation', it was in response to a comment you made on this page - not the last couple pages..about 'sheltering' being a better idea than flying kites at the border for Palestinians right now. Or at least that's what I gathered from what you'd posted.

The sad fact is that Israeli military have already carried out many terrorist attacks on Palestinians in areas designated as shelters all across Gaza. The places they told Palestinians to go, in many cases. It's hard to say that it isn't on purpose. I don't know how that's reconciled logically. And yeah, statistically, it's actually more dangerous to be at a shelter in Gaza than to be out flying a kite at the border in a war zone (which is all of Gaza).

 

[SamAndreas]

So...doing normal things that civilians do (and has done for at least a decade) "in a war zone"?

What are other 'bad ideas' in a war zone? Because it seems like simply existing is a pretty bad idea for Palestinians, based on the numbers.

Don't unduly antagonize the enemy. Kids throw rocks. Don't do that either.

Kids play with toy guns. For Gods sake don't do that.