Israel (9 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Because Russia has nukes.

Well, so does NATO...sooo...yeah.

 

[Heathen Saint]

 

[Dago]

it’s pretty clear that this isn’t a case of good guys vs bad guys but where do you go in a negotiation with a group who won’t even verify what they are negotiating with. Hamas has no desire to negotiate for the Palestinian people. Are Palestinians still supporting hamas or if they had the ability, would they go after them themselves? I understand they hate the IDF, but what percentage also hate hamas?

Agreed that there are no good guys in this....the narrative that some are pushing that Hamas does not represent the Palestinians is completely false.

As 'gaps narrow' in truce talks, most Palestinians now want Hamas in charge: Live updates

Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

www.yahoo.com

More than 70% of Palestinians support Hamas’ decision to launch the Oct. 7 offensive into Israel that started the war, and 59% of them want Hamas to control the Gaza Strip when the war is over, a new survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

 

[Infoman]

Agreed that there are no good guys in this....the narrative that some are pushing that Hamas does not represent the Palestinians is completely false.

As 'gaps narrow' in truce talks, most Palestinians now want Hamas in charge: Live updates

Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

www.yahoo.com

More than 70% of Palestinians support Hamas’ decision to launch the Oct. 7 offensive into Israel that started the war, and 59% of them want Hamas to control the Gaza Strip when the war is over, a new survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

Also agree... I'd also like to point out that there is no amicable or reasonable way to end this... trying to negotiate a cease fire with a terror organization might be one of the most insane things I have ever heard... and that's saying a lot... the reason they are a terror organization is.... because they do not honor cease fire agreements or anything else really. Unfortunately, the only way this ends is that one side has to unconditionally surrender (concede defeat) to the other.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Agreed that there are no good guys in this....the narrative that some are pushing that Hamas does not represent the Palestinians is completely false.

As 'gaps narrow' in truce talks, most Palestinians now want Hamas in charge: Live updates

Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

www.yahoo.com

More than 70% of Palestinians support Hamas’ decision to launch the Oct. 7 offensive into Israel that started the war, and 59% of them want Hamas to control the Gaza Strip when the war is over, a new survey by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. Only 27% of Palestinians would prefer control by any version of the Palestinian Authority, a plan backed by the Biden administration.

I think the narrative is more that millions of people should never serve as 'collateral' based on the actions of extremists. Gaza is one of if not the most poor area on earth within such a small area. Most don't have the ability to get a consistent meal much less play politics.

The same should apply to Israelis. The Israeli people not involved in any of this and many protesting against it shouldn't be guilty of anything or subject to being slaughtered based on the actions of their terrorist government.

 

[Dago]

I think the narrative is more that millions of people should never serve as 'collateral' based on the actions of extremists. Gaza is one of if not the most poor area on earth within such a small area. Most don't have the ability to get a consistent meal much less play politics.

The same should apply to Israelis. The Israeli people not involved in any of this and many protesting against it shouldn't be guilty of anything or subject to being slaughtered based on the actions of their terrorist government.

70% of them approve of the Oct 7th attacks even now with the fallout. That means that 70% of them are extremists or support the extremist ideology. You cannot separate the two. They agree with and want this.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

70% of them approve of the Oct 7th attacks even now with the fallout. That means that 70% of them are extremists or support the extremist ideology. You cannot separate the two. They agree with and want this.

It's odd that you'd be surprised that they support Oct 7 at this point.

I would assume that the Oct 7 attacks have become more popular with the people in Gaza given what Israel has done since then. That is the point that many of us have been making the whole time.

You can't bomb extremism out of existence, bombing only makes extremism more popular.

 

[Heathen Saint]

70% of them approve of the Oct 7th attacks even now with the fallout. That means that 70% of them are extremists or support the extremist ideology. You cannot separate the two. They agree with and want this.

But what does that have to do with what I said previously?

I mentioned that the people of Gaza (or anywhere) should never be subject to mass slaughter, starvation and their homes destroyed because of the actions of a few of that group. Do you disagree?

 

[Heathen Saint]

70% of them approve of the Oct 7th attacks even now with the fallout. That means that 70% of them are extremists or support the extremist ideology. You cannot separate the two. They agree with and want this.

Also, ~60% of Israelis support the IDF terrorists doing more to destroy Gaza, not less recently - meaning based on what you've said - they also are extremists or support the extremist ideology. And the IDF have slaughtered many more lives than Hamas has..

Just something to think about..

 

[DaveXA]

Also, ~60% of Israelis support the IDF terrorists doing more to destroy Gaza, not less recently - meaning based on what you've said - they also are extremists or support the extremist ideology. And the IDF have slaughtered many more lives than Hamas has..

Just something to think about..

Yeah, while I don't agree with it, I certainly can understand why Palestinians are more inclined to support Hamas at this point after being pushed nearly completely out of Gaza and killing thousands in the process. I mean, if I'm Palestinian I'm blaming Hamas, but I'm also blaming the IDF for destroying my home and killing many of my family and friends. The more Palestinians suffer, the less sympathy they'll have for Israel regarding 10/7.

There certainly were Palestinians early on who wanted Hamas out, but at this point, I'm not surprised that sentiment would have changed.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Yeah, while I don't agree with it, I certainly can understand why Palestinians are more inclined to support Hamas at this point after being pushed nearly completely out of Gaza and killing thousands in the process. I mean, if I'm Palestinian I'm blaming Hamas, but I'm also blaming the IDF for destroying my home and killing many of my family and friends. The more Palestinians suffer, the less sympathy they'll have for Israel regarding 10/7.

There certainly were Palestinians early on who wanted Hamas out, but at this point, I'm not surprised that sentiment would have changed.

Totally agree.

 

[Dago]

It's odd that you'd be surprised that they support Oct 7 at this point.

I would assume that the Oct 7 attacks have become more popular with the people in Gaza given what Israel has done since then. That is the point that many of us have been making the whole time.

You can't bomb extremism out of existence, bombing only makes extremism more popular.

And I posted previously that the large majority of Palestinians polled supported Hamas even before October 7th

They voted Hamas in, they supported Hamas before, and they support them now. This support did not start after October 7th so sorry....your statement and reasoning are incorrect

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

And I posted previously that the large majority of Palestinians polled supported Hamas even before October 7th

They voted Hamas in, they supported Hamas before, and they support them now. This support did not start after October 7th so sorry....your statement and reasoning are incorrect

Whatever the number was before October 7, it is higher today than it was then, because of what has happened since.

 

[Dago]

But what does that have to do with what I said previously?

I mentioned that the people of Gaza (or anywhere) should never be subject to mass slaughter, starvation and their homes destroyed because of the actions of a few of that group. Do you disagree?

I don't think there is a right or wrong side in this....it's horrible.

But acting like the Palestinians are separate and apart from Hamas is disingenuous. The people voted in and support the goals of a terrorist regime. I hate what is going on but pretending like the Palestinians didn't want this and are just innocent victims is ridiculous.

 

[Dago]

Whatever the number was before October 7, it is higher today than it was then, because of what has happened since.

It's maybe a 6% difference if I recall. So yes....the vast majority of Palestinians wanted Oct 7th to occur (or something like it) even before the attack happened. They are not innocent bystanders like you are trying to portray