Israel (3 Viewers)

[Dago]

I didn’t put words in your mouth. I said you saying that your statement of “ but pretending like the Palestinians didn't want this and are just innocent victims is ridiculous.” seems very wrong. I don’t think people who had nothing to do with October 7 should be subject to atrocity.

There is a clear difference between saying Hamas doesn’t represent all Palestinians and they aren’t innocent victims of indeterminate slaughter.

That’s what I’m saying.

What you fail to comprehend is that "deserve" is an arbitrary judgement that is subject to personal bias
It's also asinine to view what is going on in a vacuum and ignore the history that has led to this horrible situation...its cherry picking in order to support a moral judgement (which again is arbitrary and subject to personal bias)
It isn't like it was a secret before Oct 7th that Hamas would use their own people as human shields or that they had a significant network of tunnels whose purpose was to carry out attacks on people that, by your own definition, are innocent. It isn't a secret that Hamas supports the genocide of Jews and the Palestinians support that by an overwhelming majority.

You can't reason with ideological extremists and unfortunately that's what we have here....two groups of ideological extremists hell bent on eradicating the opposition. There is no moral high ground here. This situation has been going on since the late 1800s when the first Jewish refugees were placed in Israel due to genocide from the Russians in Ukraine. If anybody is to blame, it is the UN for creating this situation and the UN and the Muslim countries in and around the Middle East for using this situation for political and ideological posturing for over a century instead of doing anything to create a peaceful resolution that would stop the bloodshed

 

[UpHere]

You can't reason with ideological extremists and unfortunately that's what we have here....two groups of ideological extremists hell bent on eradicating the opposition. There is no moral high ground here.

This. Unfortunately the innocent get caught in the cross fire.

 

[Heathen Saint]

What you fail to comprehend is that "deserve" is an arbitrary judgement that is subject to personal bias

I must've missed where "deserve" was stated. Feel free to explain what I'm missing.

It's also asinine to view what is going on in a vacuum and ignore the history that has led to this horrible situation...its cherry picking in order to support a moral judgement (which again is arbitrary and subject to personal bias)
It isn't like it was a secret before Oct 7th that Hamas would use their own people as human shields or that they had a significant network of tunnels whose purpose was to carry out attacks on people that, by your own definition, are innocent. It isn't a secret that Hamas supports the genocide of Jews and the Palestinians support that by an overwhelming majority.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to view this all in a vacuum, and haven't once indicated otherwise. So i'm not sure where you're getting 'cherry picking'...

For example, October 7th wasn't something that 'no one could have seen coming' after decades of racist apartheid and mistreatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli government. The Israeli government shares a huge amount of fault for putting Palestinian people in an open air prison in the first place and treating them like "animals" (by their own words).

On what I bolded above - I have not once indicated that Hamas' views aren't genocidal in intent. I agree.

But you know what? While the IDF may not state it, there's enough evidence to say that Israel supports genocide of the Palestinian people, and the last 5 months is evidence of that. The rubble of Gaza and bodies and thousands dead is evidence of that.

What I don't agree with is the notion that all Palestinians support the genocide of Jews, just like I don't agree that all Israelis support genocide of Palestinians. While the IDF or Hamas may have these views, I think support of military operations there could be quite different than support of wiping out an entire ethnic group there.

And on that note, as I've alluded before - - I don't think that ANY Palestinian or Israeli civilian should be subject to any harm or mistreatment for ANY reason. That means it doesn't matter if most of their people support something terrible, or are muslim, or are jewish, or support Hamas, or support the IDF...if they haven't done anything to harm anyone, I don't think they should be subject to harm. I'd be interested to see if you agree or disagree.

You can't reason with ideological extremists and unfortunately that's what we have here....two groups of ideological extremists hell bent on eradicating the opposition. There is no moral high ground here.

The moral high ground is ensuring more innocent people don't die unnecessarily, whether they are from Israel or Gaza or anywhere else.

It's more than just 'two groups of extremists hell bent on destroying each other'. Much more.

There are thousands if not millions of innocent people caught in the crossfire of these two religious extremist groups. They matter, and what's going on right now with Israel murdering thousands of Palestinians and taking their land matters just as much as what Hamas did on October 7th matters.

This situation has been going on since the late 1800s when the first Jewish refugees were placed in Israel due to genocide from the Russians in Ukraine. If anybody is to blame, it is the UN for creating this situation and the UN and the Muslim countries in and around the Middle East for using this situation for political and ideological posturing for over a century instead of doing anything to create a peaceful resolution that would stop the bloodshed

In my opinion, the largest initiator of what we see today was due to the Nakba and expelling of 750,000 people from their homeland in 1948-49. That being said, I agree there are a lot of moving parts here.

 

[SamAndreas]

What you fail to comprehend is that "deserve" is an arbitrary judgement that is subject to personal bias
It's also asinine to view what is going on in a vacuum and ignore the history that has led to this horrible situation...its cherry picking in order to support a moral judgement (which again is arbitrary and subject to personal bias)
It isn't like it was a secret before Oct 7th that Hamas would use their own people as human shields or that they had a significant network of tunnels whose purpose was to carry out attacks on people that, by your own definition, are innocent. It isn't a secret that Hamas supports the genocide of Jews and the Palestinians support that by an overwhelming majority.

You can't reason with ideological extremists and unfortunately that's what we have here....two groups of ideological extremists hell bent on eradicating the opposition. There is no moral high ground here. This situation has been going on since the late 1800s when the first Jewish refugees were placed in Israel due to genocide from the Russians in Ukraine. If anybody is to blame, it is the UN for creating this situation and the UN and the Muslim countries in and around the Middle East for using this situation for political and ideological posturing for over a century instead of doing anything to create a peaceful resolution that would stop the bloodshed

So you found the point.



I thought they would had hidden the point a heck of a lot better than that.

In case you're wondering, what???,,, this is the point I'm talking about. A point which is both older than hell, and narrated by Ringo Starr:

 

[Heathen Saint]

 

[SamAndreas]

Lot's of high pressure steam.

 

[efil4stnias]

Lot's of high pressure steam.

i cant watch that without humming " danger zone "

 

[SamAndreas]

i cant watch that without humming " danger zone "

Shake hands with Danger!!!

 

[SamAndreas]

The Varyag is with the Russian ships. It's like the Moskva who's been turned a submarine.

 

[SamAndreas]

Other Sam tells Bibi what for:

NSFW language

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

Who gets their picture taken and annnounces the country they are in?

 

[DaveXA]

Who gets their picture taken and annnounces the country they are in?

If he ain't RIP yet, probably will be soon.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Thought this was going to be an update on IDF assassinating food relief workers

 

[guidomerkinsrules]