Israel (7 Viewers)

[Dago]

Also, ~60% of Israelis support the IDF terrorists doing more to destroy Gaza, not less recently - meaning based on what you've said - they also are extremists or support the extremist ideology. And the IDF have slaughtered many more lives than Hamas has..

Just something to think about..

I'm not comparing and I have never said Israel is innocent. I'm not the one in here trying to portray one side as innocent.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

It's maybe a 6% difference if I recall. So yes....the vast majority of Palestinians wanted Oct 7th to occur (or something like it) even before the attack happened. They are not innocent bystanders like you are trying to portray

You went from saying a majority supported Hamas, which I could have disputed, but didn't bother, to saying that the majority of Palestinians wanted Oct 7 or something like it to occur.

Your premise isn't correct, but even if I accept it, it doesn't justify what has happened in Gaza.

 

[Dago]

You went from saying a majority supported Hamas, which I could have disputed, but didn't bother, to saying that the majority of Palestinians wanted Oct 7 or something like it to occur.

Your premise isn't correct, but even if I accept it, it doesn't justify what has happened in Gaza.

Do you think the Palestinians weren't aware of Hamas's goals and intentions before October 7th?

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Do you think the Palestinians weren't aware of Hamas's goals and intentions before October 7th?

I don't care.

It doesn't justify what has happened since.

 

[SamAndreas]

I don't care.

It doesn't justify what has happened since.

Nothing has ever justified it. Lots of things don't ever get justified.

October 7th is the newest buzz saw. I remember the old original buzz saw back on 5 September 1972.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Nothing has ever justified it. Lots of things don't ever get justified.

October 7th is the newest buzz saw. I remember the old original buzz saw back on 5 September 1972.

All we can do is try to stop the bad thing that is happening right now. We can't influence the past.

 

[DaveXA]

All we can do is try to stop the bad thing that is happening right now. We can't influence the past.

Sure, but for better or worse the past does influence the future.

 

[SamAndreas]

All we can do is try to stop the bad thing that is happening right now. We can't influence the past.

It seems like one doesn't get much of an opportunity to influence the present either.

I remember that about half way between the 72 and the 23 attacks that I formulated a theory that trying to stop it was what we were doing the wrong thing. We kept stopping it before it got done. Over and over we stopped it just when it had extracted the worst human toll.

Saving no lives at all, insuring that the underlying issues never got resolved. Why,,, back in the good olden days we used to finish wars.

Except we didn't finish them them any better back then than we do now. I don't hold with that simple "finish the war" theory anymore. I don't have a solution anymore, I never did have a solution, I just thought I did.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

It seems like one doesn't get much of an opportunity to influence the present either.

I remember that about half way between the 72 and the 23 attacks that I formulated a theory that trying to stop it was what we were doing the wrong thing. We kept stopping it before it got done. Over and over we stopped it just when it had extracted the worst human toll.

Saving no lives at all, insuring that the underlying issues never got resolved. Why,,, back in the good olden days we used to finish wars.

Except we didn't finish them them any better back then than we do now. I don't hold with that simple "finish the war" theory anymore. I don't have a solution anymore, I never did have a solution, I just thought I did.

It seems like some form of ethnic cleansing is what is going end up happening. I don't think that should be hyperbolic to say anymore.

It seems obvious to me that it is more likely that not that the Palestinians won't be moving back to Gaza.

The feeling of helplessness we all feel is why we will accept it, even though most of us would have ruled it out completely on October 8.

 

[DaveXA]

It seems like one doesn't get much of an opportunity to influence the present either.

I remember that about half way between the 72 and the 23 attacks that I formulated a theory that trying to stop it was what we were doing the wrong thing. We kept stopping it before it got done. Over and over we stopped it just when it had extracted the worst human toll.

Saving no lives at all, insuring that the underlying issues never got resolved. Why,,, back in the good olden days we used to finish wars.

Except we didn't finish them them any better back then than we do now. I don't hold with that simple "finish the war" theory anymore. I don't have a solution anymore, I never did have a solution, I just thought I did.

When you think you know...

 

[Heathen Saint]

I don't think there is a right or wrong side in this....it's horrible.

But acting like the Palestinians are separate and apart from Hamas is disingenuous. The people voted in and support the goals of a terrorist regime. I hate what is going on but pretending like the Palestinians didn't want this and are just innocent victims is ridiculous.

Sorry, this just doesn't check out for me and seems morally very wrong...

By your same logic, any group of people who are a part of a nation that at one point in time broadly support a terrible act or actors aren't innocent victims if something terrible happens to them.

Seems like a slippery slope. By that same logic, thousands of Americans aren't just 'innocent victims' because our country has supported terrorism of other nations at some point in our history...

 

[SamAndreas]

It seems like some form of ethnic cleansing is what is going end up happening. I don't think that should be hyperbolic to say anymore.

It seems obvious to me that it is more likely that not that the Palestinians won't be moving back to Gaza.

The feeling of helplessness we all feel is why we will accept it, even though most of us would have ruled it out completely on October 8.

The thing which get's my goat is they who have suffered the most under modern ethnic cleansing during the last century are doing their own form of ethnic cleansing now.

I don't any people anywhere at anytime have ever learned a blasted thing.

 

[Heathen Saint]

I'm not comparing and I have never said Israel is innocent. I'm not the one in here trying to portray one side as innocent.

Let's start here - What 'sides' are you talking about?

People who live in a particular nation, represented by terrorists of the Islamic jihad variety or of the Zionist extremist variety - aren't automatically guilty of anything because of that representation or where they live.

Palestinian and Israeli civilians who have had no part of terrorism shouldn’t ever be subject to its effects, in my opinion

 

[Dago]

Sorry, this just doesn't check out for me and seems morally very wrong...

By your same logic, any group of people who are a part of a nation that at one point in time broadly support a terrible act or actors aren't innocent victims if something terrible happens to them.

Seems like a slippery slope. By that same logic, thousands of Americans aren't just 'innocent victims' because our country has supported terrorism of other nations at some point in our history...

I never said they deserved it but thanks for putting words in my mouth
What I said is that pretending like Hamas does not represent Palestine (like some in here have tried to say) is crap

 

[Heathen Saint]

I never said they deserved it but thanks for putting words in my mouth
What I said is that pretending like Hamas does not represent Palestine (like some in here have tried to say) is crap

I didn’t put words in your mouth. I said you saying that your statement of “ but pretending like the Palestinians didn't want this and are just innocent victims is ridiculous.” seems very wrong. I don’t think people who had nothing to do with October 7 should be subject to atrocity.

There is a clear difference between saying Hamas doesn’t represent all Palestinians and they aren’t innocent victims of indeterminate slaughter.

That’s what I’m saying.