23/24 EPL season (1 Viewer)

[guidomerkinsrules]

All of your post is great and appreciated. I will say that watching EPL seems very different than watching MLS, but aside from what appears to be superior talent in a lot of cases, I’ll try to keep a better eye on what’s happening off the ball. I’m sure there is more to it.

I’ll disagree with efil a tiny bit / the speed of EPL play makes it hard to follow tactics (and the coaches and players are so good that they can switch tactics from possession to possession)
Watching EPL is like watching NBA and trying to follow tactical strategies
MLS is like WNBA - a slower and more deliberate pace where the plays are more obvious

 

[Rouxble]

I’ll disagree with efil a tiny bit / the speed of EPL play makes it hard to follow tactics (and the coaches and players are so good that they can switch tactics from possession to possession)
Watching EPL is like watching NBA and trying to follow tactical strategies
MLS is like WNBA - a slower and more deliberate pace where the plays are more obvious

Makes sense, I was going to post earlier that I watched Arsenal play last season (maybe the one before?) and it was fascinating how they moved the ball, but it seemed to move so fast that I couldn’t get a grasp of the overall objective. Aside from trying to score.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I couldn’t get a grasp of the overall objective. Aside from trying to score.

If you understand the objective is trying to score, you’re already better than our (hopefully packed and gone) USWNT coach

 

[efil4stnias]

All of your post is great and appreciated. I will say that watching EPL seems very different than watching MLS, but aside from what appears to be superior talent in a lot of cases, I’ll try to keep a better eye on what’s happening off the ball. I’m sure there is more to it.

See, you already recognize a facet of the game!

Yes talent/skill plays a role.

Think of it like a SP offense. He creates routes for all wr with a purpose. To put pressure on a defense/defender to make a decision (usually wrong one) and then have a QB like Brees to understand that same philosophy and deliver the ball to open guy.

Teams that play thru midfield usually have a guy in mid who controls tempo of the game but also is always looking for that weakness in defense and one movement or weakness to exploit with pass that opens defense up and creates a scoring opportunity.

You can always post a snippet of a play here and we all can watch and talk about to give you understanding.

It's always hard for me to explain on paper vs seeing what is happening and then explain because it can change in a second just by one step. ( go look at MLS thread to see Messi videos...don't watch Messi at first, just watch defenders he attacks and how they move feet and position a few times. Then watch again, this time watching Messi, knowing what the defender is doing and you will see that HIS movement/ ball skill is dictating or baiting that defender for his next move. Granted, he is the best, but many try to do same thing).

I'll be here all season watching, rooting for my Red Devils and poo pooing everyone else lol. Especially City.

Or Liverpool
Or Arsenal
Chelsea

 

[efil4stnias]

I’ll disagree with efil a tiny bit / the speed of EPL play makes it hard to follow tactics (and the coaches and players are so good that they can switch tactics from possession to possession)
Watching EPL is like watching NBA and trying to follow tactical strategies
MLS is like WNBA - a slower and more deliberate pace where the plays are more obvious

There are a handful of announcers that break this down during match. Graeme Leseaux and Lee Dixon do this. I always like when they call a game.

 

[whodat79]

All of your post is great and appreciated. I will say that watching EPL seems very different than watching MLS, but aside from what appears to be superior talent in a lot of cases, I’ll try to keep a better eye on what’s happening off the ball. I’m sure there is more to it.

EPL is the best league to watch. Choose a team to follow and learn the players and manager.

 

[whodat79]

See, you already recognize a facet of the game!

Yes talent/skill plays a role.

Think of it like a SP offense. He creates routes for all wr with a purpose. To put pressure on a defense/defender to make a decision (usually wrong one) and then have a QB like Brees to understand that same philosophy and deliver the ball to open guy.

Teams that play thru midfield usually have a guy in mid who controls tempo of the game but also is always looking for that weakness in defense and one movement or weakness to exploit with pass that opens defense up and creates a scoring opportunity.

You can always post a snippet of a play here and we all can watch and talk about to give you understanding.

It's always hard for me to explain on paper vs seeing what is happening and then explain because it can change in a second just by one step. ( go look at MLS thread to see Messi videos...don't watch Messi at first, just watch defenders he attacks and how they move feet and position a few times. Then watch again, this time watching Messi, knowing what the defender is doing and you will see that HIS movement/ ball skill is dictating or baiting that defender for his next move. Granted, he is the best, but many try to do same thing).

I'll be here all season watching, rooting for my Red Devils and poo pooing everyone else lol. Especially City.

Or Liverpool
Or Arsenal
Chelsea

YNWA

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

EPL is the best league to watch. Choose Fulham to follow and learn the players and manager.

fify

 

[Rouxble]

It's always hard for me to explain on paper vs seeing what is happening and then explain because it can change in a second just by one step.

I’ll have to take you up on that when I can find the time. One question that comes to mind—I understand why a team would pass it back to escape pressure and/or maintain possession. What’s a little less clear is when the defenders just keep passing back and forth for several minutes without having a lead to protect and without the other team creating opportunities with any kind of press defense. My assumption is they are waiting for an opening, but a pro defense shouldn’t just turn to Swiss cheese by accident. My other guess is that they are setting up a play, but sometimes the play that follows doesn’t seem to have much aim.

 

[triumph]

My assumption is they are waiting for an opening, but a pro defense shouldn’t just turn to Swiss cheese by accident.

From this, I know you didnt watch Leeds last season.

Also, not fond of Adams going to Chelsea. Yeah, he'll make a nice wage, but is he going to play?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

There are a handful of announcers that break this down during match. Graeme Leseaux and Lee Dixon do this. I always like when they call a game.

While I agree, I think you almost need a cursory to intermediate understanding of tactics to follow the breakdowns (not least of which is they’re using insidery language and colloquialisms)

 

[efil4stnias]

I’ll have to take you up on that when I can find the time. One question that comes to mind—I understand why a team would pass it back to escape pressure and/or maintain possession. What’s a little less clear is when the defenders just keep passing back and forth for several minutes without having a lead to protect and without the other team creating opportunities with any kind of press defense. My assumption is they are waiting for an opening, but a pro defense shouldn’t just turn to Swiss cheese by accident. My other guess is that they are setting up a play, but sometimes the play that follows doesn’t seem to have much aim.

So as you watch games, you will sometimes hear commentators ( especially in EPL ) use the term "swtiched off" - talking about defenders that, for a solitary moment, for whatever reason, either arent paying attention or fatigued to the point that their focus drops, even for a moment.

That is what they are waiting for. When the opponent goes into that defensive mode ( like you said - no press defense ) they are then looking to counter- a tactic that works sometimes. You allow your opponent the possession, to get comfy and move forward with each pass. The idea is that you pull that back line further into your half. Let them pass back n forth, front to back and focus on their attack. Then, if you can, steal a pass and now, since they are so far upfield ( the back line defenders ) if you can have another 1-2 players run with you at them, they are out of balance and the break is on. They are in full retreat ( disadvantage ) and its a problem.

Solid defensive teams do this. Italy won the WC doing this. Invite the pressure, let the other team press further and further up field....wayward pass and BOOM the break is on.

Thats one tactic. The other team is employing a different tactic. Now you have 2 contrasting tactics at play. Great observation.

 

[efil4stnias]

While I agree, I think you almost need a cursory to intermediate understanding of tactics to follow the breakdowns (not least of which is they’re using insidery language and colloquialisms)

true...but if you pay attention to the players they single out, then it can make some sense.

I really dont like all this "9, false 9, 10" etc. Makes it waaay more complicated than it has to be for newcomers to follow. Speak in laymans terms or you will just turn folks off to the game who dont know what a "false 9" is and supposed to do ( tactically ). You can simply watch his movement in between the back and mid line to see what he trying to do- find the empty space, draw defender(s), distribute when defense now out of balance.

But here is a good primer for understanding it.

The false nine: explained - The Coaches' Voice

Lionel Messi, Karim Benzema, Roberto Firmino and Harry Kane are some modern examples of a false nine. We take an in-depth look at the role

www.coachesvoice.com

 

[SaintJ]

I just don't know how anybody catches City. Too much money, too much talent, and Pep is just the right coach for that kind of set-up.

Not sure LFC will have all the new players knit in together fast enough to stay with City from the jump, although they will have the dubious advantage of no CL this year.

United, Arsenal and Newcastle will all be stong, and Tottenham will gently disappoint once again.

Here's to a great season for all.

#YNWA

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I’ll have to take you up on that when I can find the time. One question that comes to mind—I understand why a team would pass it back to escape pressure and/or maintain possession. What’s a little less clear is when the defenders just keep passing back and forth for several minutes without having a lead to protect and without the other team creating opportunities with any kind of press defense. My assumption is they are waiting for an opening, but a pro defense shouldn’t just turn to Swiss cheese by accident. My other guess is that they are setting up a play, but sometimes the play that follows doesn’t seem to have much aim.

Yeah, we call it the horseshoe of sadness - passing in arcs along the backline (essentially it’s the 4 corners offense from basketball)
Sometimes it’s just to catch a breath
Usually it’s like you say, to get the defense shifting back n forth and then make some lazy choices to expose seams to exploit
But it’s mostly used to burn clock