Ukraine (29 Viewers)

[Krodwhodat]

Gotcha, I see your point now. I agree he is sociopathic, but I also don't see him as a Hitler in terms of ignoring obvious military situations. Thus my view that I think we need to beef up NATO countries now with a significant number of NATO troops (including many Americans).

Problem is we are NATO and are most of the funding for NATO

 

[St. Widge]

Hard disagree, turn him into a nationalist martyr if you do that and whomever replaces him could turn out to be just as bad or worse....

Maybe, but he rules with an iron fist and has plenty enemies. He has plenty of gangster rivals who may step into the power void, and not likely praise him as a martyr, and there are some non-criminal elements that may also step into the power void to create a better and more stable Russia. Some could be worse, but some could be much better.

 

[St. Widge]

Gotcha, I see your point now. I agree he is sociopathic, but I also don't see him as a Hitler in terms of ignoring obvious military situations. Thus my view that I think we need to beef up NATO countries now with a significant number of NATO troops (including many Americans).

You could be right but he's not a military strategist by trade. He's a cold war era spy and a thug. And maybe he can't win a war with NATO, but there is one sure way to not lose a war and that's using their formidable nuclear arsenal.

None of the solutions are particularly good. But, open war will not end well for anyone even if he does not use the nukes and I don't know that he will bow to economic sanctions. But, it's worth trying to build up NATO and use severe economic sanctions. But, IMO we should keep the assassination route on the table in case he starts to get erratic.

And, frankly, it's probably the only long term solution to the Putin problem. I'm not a big fan of getting involved in the politics or governance of other sovereign nations, but Putin is the type I make an exceptions for. Mostly because he has nukes.

 

[El Caliente]

Mitt was right about Russia.

 

[St. Widge]

Mitt was right about Russia.

What did Mitt say about Russia?

 

[Devildog]

What did Mitt say about Russia?

That they're bad.

 

[El Caliente]

That they're bad.

And then people laughed because we don’t use horses anymore.

 

[SystemShock]

I want to be sure I understand your point fully before I react to this. Are you suggesting that if Russia invades a NATO country we shouldn't actively defend against that with military action?

It is not without precedent that the U.S. doesn't intervene in a conflict even though the U.S. has/had treaties in place, And the U.S. has to be careful here... Russia is not Iraq, and the Ukraine is not Kuwait. Do we really want to get into armed conflict with a country that has the capability to bring war to the continental U.S., and can pull China into their corner?

 

[efil4stnias]

It is not without precedent that the U.S. doesn't intervene in a conflict even though the U.S. has/had treaties in place, And the U.S. has to be careful here... Russia is not Iraq, and the Ukraine is not Kuwait. Do we really want to get into armed conflict with a country that has the capability to bring war to the continental U.S., and can pull China into their corner?

Agree...however, we cannot be a "non-player"

And just as i type- Biden announces we will send troops to the Baltic states if Russia does not withdraw troops from Belarus.

Guess Putin now has to either invade Ukraine from North or pull them out Belarus.

Back to non-player- we dont need to send 50,000 boots to Baltic States and we can ( should ) require the EU nations to really provide the vast majority of personnel. We can supply armament, munitions, patriots ( ada ) etc.

But we cannot sit by as a spectator either.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Problem is we are NATO and are most of the funding for NATO

Agreed, but we are where we are right now.

This is not the thread for looking in the past and how we got here (that CLEARLY is on the MAP board), so we just need to react now and work the money and manpower out as we go.

 

[CoolBrees]

While real sanctions are painful to the US and Europe they can work. Especially here.

Putin has amassed 160k ish at the border and in Belarus. That is a force not big enough to take Kyiv and hold it. Take it yes, but sustain it? Whole new ball game. He would be forced into calling up reserves - which in Russia is every able bodied and male, basically. Not exactly good for the morale back home. Especially since they have trouble paying the soldiers they do have.

In Ukraine you have 40,000,000 people and theirs seems to be a cause of defiance. They will need to be conquered and that is not terrain that is easy to maintain under constant guerilla attacks.

So this has to be about taking these regions only unless he is truly trying to regain the USSR; which would end in WW3. (Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, North Korea. Whole lotta nukes on their side. Not as many as our side but still enough to end life as we know it)

This will take years of sanctions to work. But I still believe it is the only path forward. Unless he tries to take Kyiv. Then his plan is laid bare and it would be to time to stop him with force.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

What did Mitt say about Russia?

During his debate with Obama he called them our greatest geopolitical threat and got laughed at for it.

"Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe," Romney, who would be the Republican presidential nominee in the 2012 race against President Barack Obama, told Wolf Blitzer in March of that year. "They — they fight every cause for the world's worst actors."

In the third presidential debate between the two candidates in October 2012, Obama went directly after Romney for that remark. "When you were asked, 'What's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America,' you said 'Russia.' Not al Qaeda; you said Russia," Obama said. "And, the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back, because the Cold War's been over for 20 years."

Analysis: It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia

A decade ago, Mitt Romney went on CNN and made a statement that was widely perceived as a major mistake.

www.cnn.com

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

While real sanctions are painful to the US and Europe they can work. Especially here.

Putin has amassed 160k ish at the border and in Belarus. That is a force not big enough to take Kyiv and hold it. Take it yes, but sustain it? Whole new ball game. He would be forced into calling up reserves - which in Russia is every able bodied and male, basically. Not exactly good for the morale back home. Especially since they have trouble paying the soldiers they do have.

In Ukraine you have 40,000,000 people and theirs seems to be a cause of defiance. They will need to be conquered and that is not terrain that is easy to maintain under constant guerilla attacks.

So this has to be about taking these regions only unless he is truly trying to regain the USSR; which would end in WW3. (Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, North Korea. Whole lotta nukes on their side. Not as many as our side but still enough to end life as we know it)

This will take years of sanctions to work. But I still believe it is the only path forward. Unless he tries to take Kyiv. Then his plan is laid bare and it would be to time to stop him with force.

I think we will end up with him taking the area East of that river that splits Ukraine down the middle, possibly even letting Belarus have control over some of it along their border.

 

[DaveXA]

During his debate with Obama he called them our greatest geopolitical threat and got laughed at for it.

Analysis: It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia

A decade ago, Mitt Romney went on CNN and made a statement that was widely perceived as a major mistake.

www.cnn.com

Yeah, I always laugh when people say the cold war has been over however many years, but that never once meant Russia ceased being a country you need to pay significant attention to.

 

[St. Widge]

During his debate with Obama he called them our greatest geopolitical threat and got laughed at for it.

Analysis: It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia

A decade ago, Mitt Romney went on CNN and made a statement that was widely perceived as a major mistake.

www.cnn.com

Well then Mitt was indeed correct in the long term. But, I assume at the time that people were much more concerned with terrorist threats from the Middle East. But, this again is why politics are such a bad way to run a government and foreign policy.